Expandable Batons: Pretty Useless If You Do This…

Expandable Batons: Pretty Useless If You Do This…

Right, so expandable batons…or police batons. They are useless under certain conditions. Mainly conditions where you’re not using it right. And the criticisms are well founded.

Like this one from Icy Mike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDBv-Vo7B5M

About this video: It’s incomplete. Duh. And it focuses on 2 things. Learning the fundamentals is one of them. The other is not to chase baton tactics when its inappropriate. Easy enough. Keep reading.

The thing is, it’s an impact tool. It’s a weapon for blunt force trauma and the effects of which are dependent on who you’re trying to inflict that trauma to and how well you know how to use the tool.

Hammers are useful…but if you suck at it, you’ll produce crooked nails and splintered wood. You’ll end up creating more work for yourself. And yeah, that’s the thing with batons…for the most part, the folks who use it lack the kind of training and experience needed to make it work well enough and reliably repeatable enough to justify even carrying it. So while it can seem like a copout to propose that more training solves issues, it’s kind of the truth.

So here’s where we recommend getting some of that training. It’s not gonna come from some martial art or some bladed art. Now some principles may apply, but martial arts tends to take a lot more time. So start with the fundamentals. Get functional and then work towards a bit of sophistication if you like.

Check it out here:
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50 Comments

  1. 338 LM on January 1, 2023 at 1:02 am

    Was these officers the US finest?
    You guys are doomed.
    Most of them were so unfit that I doubt they could run more than 100 yards without passing out in need for paramedics and oxygen.
    The last thing I would give them would be a gun and a baton.
    Hopefully they would not harm themselves to much with pen, paper and a computer.
    Not counting all the papercuts.

    The instructor must have felt that he totally wasted his time.



  2. Special Combat Defensive Tactics USA on January 1, 2023 at 1:04 am

    I started in law enforcement in the early 70s. Then we were issued oak batons, which were heavy and dense, and fairly effective. Later on, we transitioned to heavy plastic batons, lighter, yet fairly effective, then it was the PR 24 which was an excellent tool, but required lots of ongoing training to remain proficient. The trend I saw was that the plastic straight batons and the PR 24s were not routinely carried because in the event an officer had to run or jump, the baton would flop around and sometimes fall out. Those were replaced with the collapsible/expandable batons which were easily carried in a holster on a duty belt so that it was secure and available at all times. However, the expandable batons are lighter and less dense and if used against a highly committed attacker/resistor, may not be very effective. I still teach the use of the expandable baton, however, I do not have a high level of confidence in its effectiveness.



  3. Mister Anderson on January 1, 2023 at 1:05 am

    Police in the UK get a baton and a whistle. The whistle is to signal time out.



  4. Dr. Tech on January 1, 2023 at 1:07 am

    It is a pain compliance tool, no good if they don’t feel pain.



  5. FrostyDaBear69 on January 1, 2023 at 1:07 am

    Preferred the PR24 over ASP



  6. Phil MCCracken on January 1, 2023 at 1:09 am

    Former LEO, I can say from experience expandable batons are very good tools, however, like any weapon system you get out of it what you put into it. Train your asses off.



  7. Hardrock on January 1, 2023 at 1:09 am

    The training tends to make how to use them too complicated. I carry a baton, never had a problem, they work really well. The video footage shown of cops using them is typical, none were doing what they should be doing. Just like any other tool, it’s not the batons that are useless, it’s the people trying to use them.



  8. Observer FX on January 1, 2023 at 1:12 am

    I karate chop my steak because karate is the best weapon.



  9. Jazzman3121 on January 1, 2023 at 1:16 am

    People misunderstand the utility of the baton many times. This trainer hits it on the head, it’s an impact tool first and foremost and it’s harder than a person’s fist, arm or leg so if they are throwing those at you then you can hurt them to make them not want to throw those at you, then you have the advantage to control. In FMA it’s called ‘Defanging the Snake.’



  10. Uppity White Man on January 1, 2023 at 1:19 am

    This is a lesson shooting the officer in the back. Avoid sweating.



  11. Max Power on January 1, 2023 at 1:20 am

    Passive resistance … he really tried hard not to say not a threat🤨🤨. "ouch" "sorry about that" 🤣 ok then proceed to beat them but not a light shove like i did put your back into it!



  12. Oscar Bear on January 1, 2023 at 1:21 am

    I want to see a video on shooting with your weak hand, and one handed.
    Hurting your hand, by punching, falling, climbing, pushing, squished , stepped on, jammed, bite(spider, dog).
    Even falling off a skateboard or bike and putting your hands ✋.
    It would be cool to see a video from this channel on how to shoot with 1 hand when injured



  13. Nursultan Tulyakbay on January 1, 2023 at 1:23 am

    the baton is a good tool to beat the shit out of cops when they let their guard down



  14. Rick Raven on January 1, 2023 at 1:24 am

    I love how are you utilize a wide variety of skill sets from various operators and instructors around the World. Excellent work.
    Another fantastic video Sir.



  15. quoctuan tran on January 1, 2023 at 1:24 am

    in my country police use batons alot specially expandable batons , only 24 inches+ baton but from my experiences if u hit the baton at right spot it will hurt af possibly break ur bones but is kinda depend on which batons u used , cause normal rubber without core steal or cheap (made in china) batons with cheap steal it will break instant without even hurt the bad guy… the worst case for most baton user in asia is when you hit some bad guy that high on drugs specially crystal meth they don’t feel pain soooo… taser or guns should works XD



  16. GhostVision Films & Photography on January 1, 2023 at 1:26 am

    I carry two of those batons on my backpack and I have to say it’s just like any tool some people are just masters at a tool I have broke a few wrist and smashed a few knees on people when I used mine it’s not ment to be used as a one hit KO it’s a impact and take down tool it’s all on where you make contact eye socket, chin, knees wrist or elbows…. Don’t go for the stomach they won’t feel it unless their skinny as fuck



  17. GallowsPole805 on January 1, 2023 at 1:26 am

    PR 24 + two handed Barry Bonds home run swings= devastatingly effective most of time.

    ASP + 1 handed swings= utterly non effective and worthless.

    I’ve cracked skulls with the PR24 and watched the dog sh!t ASP fail over and over…. don’t rely on them unless you are hitting them in the head/face/neck area with 2 handed strikes or jousts. Kidney, liver, floating rib, and shin strikes can be effective but swing with 2 hands and your mentality needs to be “I am death… this is my tool.”



  18. Mr nobody on January 1, 2023 at 1:27 am

    Main reason people don’t like the baton is because they don’t know how to use it



  19. Mr. White on January 1, 2023 at 1:28 am

    And if the attacker closes that gap, gets inside of your swing, that baton is useless. The human hand is the best tool and best weapon. If you need to grab for example, you have to drop the baton. Grabs can be offensive, defensive, or preventative measures to prevent a fall or a take down. Baton is just a fancy stick. Learn to use your hands and don’t depend on weapons because they might not be there when you need them. Not to mention relying on a tool for defence cripples your fought focus, due to repetitive use dependence. Or don’t be a cop, if you can’t fight without a utility belt full of stuff I could find in my wife’s purse, you shouldn’t be enforcing the law.



  20. Amber Cat on January 1, 2023 at 1:28 am

    Hahaa is that will ferrel 🤣



  21. John Hampton on January 1, 2023 at 1:30 am

    In 20 years of law enforcement with three different departments, one of which used the meb ALL THE TIME, I’ve never. Never. Seen it be useful. Unless you consider overwhelming force from multiple people. It’s only good for knocking on doors or reaching the pesky itch under your vest. Try and find one video to prove me wrong



  22. Indiana Dundee on January 1, 2023 at 1:30 am

    1:59 dude is so full of it that he put his partner to sleep standing. 🤣



  23. Sheepdog81 on January 1, 2023 at 1:30 am

    I’m an instructor for the ASP and MEB. It is quite effective if used properly. I still prefer the PR24 but, with the right TRAINING and continuous TRAINING, the ASP and MEB is a great tool.



  24. Irish kitty on January 1, 2023 at 1:30 am

    Straight batons were the best. Hickory batons with the grooves.



  25. Peter Vitkov on January 1, 2023 at 1:31 am

    I see a lot of people saying that fists generate more force than a collapsible baton.
    What? Are you out of your minds?
    Hands are…well, hands. Parts of your body – bone, muscle, skin.
    A baton is metal. It can be hollowed out metal shafts, but it’s metal. Even if we’re talking about the non-hardened batons, the cheap ones, they’ve got a better chance of, say, cracking someone’s skull or breaking their jaw, than plain old fists.
    The problem with batons, especially for a civilian, is not a practical but a legal one.
    That was, more or less, the point Icy Mike made in his video.
    True, I think Camlock batons are much better than the old friction lock batons, but the problem here is that, even with a Camlock, the most effective hits you can do, on an opponent, with a baton, are illegal in most scenarios. And if you’re a civilian or a cop trying to subdue a suspect without the use of deadly force, you can get into trouble.
    The most effective way to end a fight with a baton is to aim for the head. I don’t care if that guy’s got a body like Hulk Hogan – a broken jaw, several teeth knocked out and a fractured skull will make him back off pretty quick. The problem, at least where I live, is that hits to the head with a collapsible baton are considered lethal force – an attempt to kill the attacker. If you go to court for this, more often than not, you will be found guilty of using unjustified force to defend yourself, and you’ll be in trouble.
    So a lot of times, when the user has to utilize the baton, they’re trying to aim for the arms and other areas, where, if the attacker is particularly strong and full of adrenaline, you could virtually break his arm and it’s not gonna do much to incapacitate the rest of him.
    That, in my opinion, is the biggest downside to a collapsible baton, but…it’s valid even with something like a PR-24.
    The most effective hits are virtually never permitted.
    Also, all collapsible batons are not created equal. I’d take a Camlock over something like…brass knuckles, any day.
    I definitely wouldn’t make the swooping generalization that "collapsible batons are crap"



  26. TheCatVids on January 1, 2023 at 1:31 am

    One thing that most don’t know about is that ASPs and other collapsible batons can be “shot” open from the bottom of a fist with a good swing and land a surprise blow. A hook punch motion is all that’s needed



  27. Michael Lathrop on January 1, 2023 at 1:31 am

    Eh, still not convinced, but I respect the information. Icy Mike made a more compelling argument. Additionally (no shade towards the service) but this is a guy who is policing a country that has disarmed its populace so I’m going to have some distrust of its enforcement.



  28. saine414 on January 1, 2023 at 1:32 am

    Haha get that hard anywhere on your body and try to walk after that!



  29. Ben There on January 1, 2023 at 1:32 am

    The German police used to use a rod of coiled steel with a rubber coating. Seemed to get Green Peace’s attention real quick when they demonstrated.



  30. E Smith on January 1, 2023 at 1:35 am

    PR-24.



  31. IGL๛شرس PUBG MOBILE on January 1, 2023 at 1:36 am

    رائع جدا



  32. John Stone on January 1, 2023 at 1:37 am

    You get what you pay for…in terms of the tool and your training.



  33. emkplayboy6 on January 1, 2023 at 1:44 am

    Very interesting video ty so much for this!



  34. Raiden4019 on January 1, 2023 at 1:44 am

    Collab with Icy Mike and Hard2Hurt when?



  35. Ramil Marquez on January 1, 2023 at 1:46 am

    Baton is very useful once you know how to use and protect Strike your enemy in his weakness point in & out legs, arms. Much better if you have background "kali".



  36. chemo38 on January 1, 2023 at 1:47 am

    As a police officer assigned to patrol duties, I can tell you truthfully, collapsible batons are ineffective. I got better results with a PR-24 made by Monacanock. That baton was basically a metal pipe designed to break bones when properly used.



  37. Jay who on January 1, 2023 at 1:48 am

    gian are you bisaya or tagalog



  38. David C Dun on January 1, 2023 at 1:48 am

    Just like chess, beautiful.



  39. Frankie4Bjj on January 1, 2023 at 1:49 am

    This is a clip of an officer trying to use his baton. Perp rushes in, rendering his strikes with the baton basically useless, officer was lucky perp didn’t take the baton and beat him with it instead. Most of LEO baton training consists of striking stationary/compliant targets. Also I’d say in most LEO agencies, we get about two or three hours a year of close quarters tactics training, yes I said right. Of that training maybe 10 mins or less is dedicated to baton training where officers swing at the air and the instructors pray they don’t swing hard enough to hurt themselves so the officers can file for the injury and get some time off. Officer control tactics or sorely lacking in many agencies unfortunately, and although I appreciate an awesome Eskrimador/Kali person, putting a baton in the hands of an officer that will never get enough agency provided training with it is just asking for trouble. Give the officers some grappling skills and it will benefit them more for several reasons. Holding a perp down in side control/mount looks way better than what the media will portray as a vicious beating with a baton even though it may have been justified. Either way, you can lead a horse/officer to water, shove his face in it, waterboard him, and they will still refuse to drink that training lol. Be safe out there everyone 🙂 https://youtu.be/RYbMH5F4AQo



  40. Elvis Echaza on January 1, 2023 at 1:49 am

    Man I got this baton from Taiwan that it snap in two after I hit an individual on the forearm.



  41. jacob clemoune on January 1, 2023 at 1:49 am

    How to use a baton,

    Step 1. Don’t use it.
    Step 2. Use your tazer.



  42. IDNHANTU2day on January 1, 2023 at 1:50 am

    Straight blunt weapons without a handle work very well. I remember the old hickory batons were more versatile than the stupid Madnodnok they issued in the mid 80s. You can’t generate enough force with a hollow aluminum tube with a handle. I recall that "ding!" sound telling me I just managed to piss off a combatant and encouraged him to continue the fight when he believed you just "shot your best wad" and it didn’t hurt.



  43. Tony Parrish on January 1, 2023 at 1:50 am

    Old school PR-24, enough said!



  44. snake eyes on January 1, 2023 at 1:50 am

    The bottom line is you must know your equipment. How to properly use that tool. Simple.
    So practice your baton, knife, etc. Its simple



  45. Kevin Mitchell on January 1, 2023 at 1:52 am

    A baton in the right hands is a great 2:1 neutralizer. Which is what most street fights are (minimum)



  46. james b on January 1, 2023 at 1:53 am

    Collapsible batons are good for 3 things.
    1. Backscratcher under your vest
    2. Fishing stuff out from under your patrol car seat
    3. Breaking windows (sort of)



  47. 283blood on January 1, 2023 at 1:56 am

    The ASP Baton is ineffective for only two reasons. 1. After the initial 8hr certification, no one trains with them again, just like they don’t work out, or take any kind of combatives training at all. 2. Departments issue them, but then write use of force regulations that don’t allow them to be used in the proscribed trained manner. These are administrative, and operator issues, not that the ASP Baton isn’t a good tool issue. Departments and Academies today are training, and regulating Cops to die unfortunately. More worried about being sued, than you going home to your family at the end of shift.



  48. Dawie Van Rensburg on January 1, 2023 at 1:58 am

    Whoever thinks a baton is useless is a person i completely disagree with.



  49. ArcanusLibero on January 1, 2023 at 1:58 am

    Like I told my police roommates when I would disarm them. You can only learn enough hand-to-hand in a few hours to get in trouble with someone that has years of training and experience. These are great techniques for dealing with the average person but you need to be ready for the exceptions to these scenarios. A good fighter would close fast and aggressive after the first swing on their hand. If they didn’t they would lose. You must have the initiative at all times and be ready for the unexpected.



  50. For The Country on January 1, 2023 at 1:59 am

    Love that this guys is assuming the people in that group are well trained and will digest his loose "direction". Try hitting a decent street fighter with a baton and see what happens if that was the extent of your training.