Take Down AR15's are dead, but why?
Take Down AR15's are dead, but why?
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Take Down AR’s are neat guns, I do enjoy them but it seems like anytime a major manufacturer tries to make one, it flops. What is it about the take-down AR that turns people off? Some designs of the take down rifle are better than others, but even most of those have failed. We discuss it and show a poor example, the Ruger SR556 take-down.
#takedown #ar15 #failure
Dolos blew it with me, BECAUSE THEY WERE NEVER IN STOCK. THEY NEVER NOTIFIED THEIR MAILING LIST OF AVAILABILITY. Then I shot an AR pistol, with the buffer tube wrapped in paracord. I was finished. Bought a lower and registered if as a pistol. Law folder(it was for lefties off the get go). Topped it off with a 10.5. Everything fit into one of my ancient Prince Tennis bags. My trunk monkey, truck gun, back pack, trail gun, grey man….what ever the term de jour is. It will always be, and be called “My Dirty Little Secret.”
I think a big reason is the rise of compact PCCs. I don’t expect to ever get into a 200m+ sustained gunfight in my every day life. A 9mm carbine would be more than adequate. I’d love to see more companies make 5.7mm PCCs. Flatter shooting, more capacity, higher reliability, plus it’d lower the price of 5.7mm
Didn’t LaRue do one of these as well? There was one that was supposed to come in a little roll up kit and when it finally shipped it didn’t have the little roll up kit my buddy bought one
I’ve owned the Ruger SR556 PRE take down model and LOVE IT! I wouldn’t own the SR556 take down even with the .300blk barrel option. I just see it as a weak point that is just potential problem.
THAT was MY understanding of the “take down”. NOT so much as a “backpack” rifle but a quick change barrel for future caliber options. They pushed the take down feature as an afterthought because of the popularity of the 10/22 take down. Had they stuck with the original idea of multiple calibers with ONE rifle it probably would have been received better. Because you really didn’t lose much length, those that got it for that feature were disappointed and sales died off. So they dropped it all together and after the .300blk, they never came out with other barrel options.
I love the AR platform. It is my favorite gun. However, it was never meant to be modified as a takedown.
I own an SR556 takedown with both barrels: 556 and 300 BLK. The barrel swap is the big feature, not the few inches saved. So, why didn’t you address this feature? Please reply.
I have the Maxim system, which maybe doesn’t technically count, but is a proprietary system designed to reduce OAL of an AR. It works fine, but I’d rather have the Sig, which also isn’t a takedown; or a GAU-5A clone. I have no interest in that weird Ruger.
Did you say the msrp was like 5 grand? There’s the reason why it wasn’t popular if that is what you said. Priced them out of the majority of the market.
Great discussion!
I have a foldar! I’m obsessed with takedowns how can you not want a rifle that’s concealable? That could be invaluable for many real world scenarios. Next gun will be a law folder with cry havoc with 223 and 300 barrels. Then I need a 308 6.5 combo
At 2:09
Same reason that Sig MCX will fail.
Larue fanboy but the PredatOBR and then they never sold different barrel/handguard/caliber kits.
I don’t think the takedown is dead I got two Ruger SR’s and they were fine also have a 1020 take down it works good too also have a nemesis arms vanquish rifle with different barrels very accurate
I have a takedown AR that uses the Cry Havoc system. I like it
Banshee300 mkgs 9mm glock is way to go if you down want takedown fire arm
The sig rattler sells really well at the cost it has. With 300 blk out it has advantages over .223 with the shorter barrel. It’s about the best small size rifle cartridge folder you can get. I tried to make one with a 6 inch barrel with a law tactical folder. Still trying to zero in everything to make it shoot suppressed and Un suppressed.
IMO, if it can’t fire when its closed, then what is the point? I suppose for storage maybe, but when it comes to a "go bag" type application i’d assume you want something that can throw lead down range straight out of the bag to buy you some time where you can deploy the folded stock. Or perhaps easier to handle inside a vehicle. Obviously the smaller you make an AR ( 5.56) the less effective it would be. You could use .300 Blk but that comes with increased cost and you would still run into issues with firing while folded. Sig has their rifles that can shoot while folded, but yet again cost. Why not have 2 AK platforms both in 7.62 x 39, one in the standard rifle configuration and another with a short barrel + folding stock? You get mag + ammo compatibility as well as a similar sized foot print to a folding AR.
I built my own take down AR. I used the dolos system to chamber it in both 5.56 and 300blk along with CMMG’s .22 conversion so that one firearm can shoot 300blk, 5.56, 223 and .22lr. It also has a folding buffer tube to make it as short as possible while in my backpack that I carry with me in my pickup at all times. I love the gun and it is so versatile with being able to fire so many different types of ammo it is a prepper’s must and I just like it so I can be used to one gun and do anything from hunting large game to varmints without having to have a completely different gun. This gun is just fun especially with my QD optics, QD suppresser and biometric trigger from Franklin.
The AMERICAN RESISTANCE IS AWESOME ITS A COMPANY OWNED BY A MARINE VET IN TEXAS I PAID 1400 AND THE HAVE OPTION TO GET A SECOND BARREL FOR 300 BLACK OUT.
IT EVEN HAS WE THE PEOPLE CARVED IN THE HAND GUARD AWESOME GUN
The American resistance uses all the takedown ar parts that Midwest industries does I just added the folding pistol grip
This will be considered a different category, but I like my Kel-Tec Sub 2000. 16 inches long when folded, and that’s with a loaded magazine inserted, and the bolt locked back. 2 to 3 seconds to unfold and fire.
I love you channel
A great video bro
I cannot add to this as it was so thorough and well done
Thank you
All AR15s are takedowns, as people noted
But no I don’t. I do have a Ruger PCC that fills that role.
Three problems I see that make a takedown AR not able to survive the market.
The first is the fact that the AR is basically already able to be taken down. The added complexity for a few more inches isnt really worth it to people. It is still the same amount of gun, weight and all, whether it is shorter by 4-6 inches or not doesnt change the fact you are still carrying the same weight of rifle.
Another is the fact that takedown guns are literally guns that cant function. You take the barrel off of a AR-15, its not going to do much, if anything. A takedown gun is not a rapid access gun. Takedown is for storage, so its great for storing a gun. But if you really are worried about having a gun available to you, are you really going to go with a option that requires you to put it back together before its actually usable? What good is a compact, takedown AR-15 if its in your backpack and in pieces when you suddenly need it?
Finally, the AR-15, as it was designs, cannot actually be improved upon in any meaningful way, without giving up something, somewhere. And as such something like a takedown function will end up hurting the functionallity of the AR-15 more than helping it.
If you really want a smaller gun, either consider a bullpup, or a bufferless AR type rifle. PSA has the JAKL, CMMG has the Dissent, there is the BRN-180, Foxtrot Mike has their version as well (cant remember the name), and of course the Sig MCX and its variants. Alternatively, just get a AK. One of the advantages to the AK is the fact that its recoil assemble is in the receiver, and not behind the receiver, in the stock. If having it loaded and ready is important, a pistol type firearm like the JAKL or Rattler would be a perfect choice.
I have a cry havoc converted aero precision build with a law tactical folder. One barrel is 10.5 in 5.56 and the other is 7.5 300 blk. Basically 2 in 1
Yes, I’ve seen some cool gadgets. I generally like cool gadgets. There is some definite appeal to "tacticool" at the range. Now for the reality….If I need to put it together before I use it, it is a complete fail for SHTF at any level. It absolutely always must be ready when I need it. It must work reliably, which is why I train with it. As to the other options, it can’t be an odd caliber (looking you .300 and 10 mm junkies). Scrounging ammo pretty much limits my options to much, much more common options (.223, 5.56, 9mm). The ability to scrounge replacement ammo is extremely important. Now, for backpacking, I’ve never had an issue with the carbine versions of the AR, so why should I go for an "upgrade". For a little more weight, I can go with the scout version of the trusty M-14 with range and near perfect accuracy every time. As near as I can tell, the "upgrade" is more complex. More complex to an ex-infantryman translates to more likely to fail when I need it. Again, no thank you. Maybe there is a reason I’m an old infantryman?
I just retired my dolos system this year.
For me, it came down to price. A Law Tactical folding adapter costs $250 on Brownells … and that doesn’t include the buffer tube and stock or brace.
Compare that to a Foxtrot Mike-15 complete upper with 16" barrel for $600 or a BRN-180 complete upper with 16" barrel that costs $880. Those two uppers don’t require a buffer tube so you just need a KNS picatinny buffer adapter for $50 and a complete folding stock that attaches with a picatinny clamp for $170. The KNS adapter + folding stock comes to $225 … so, you’re under the price of just a Law Tactical adapter (excluding tube and stock) … AND, most importantly, you can shoot multiple shots with the stock folded with the Mike-15 or BRN-180 uppers like you can with the SIG Rattler at 19:23 … but at half the price of a Rattler. You can’t do that with the Law Tactical adapter on a stock AR-15 that requires the buffer tube in place to cycle properly.
As for use cases, a folded stock with the ability to shoot multiple shots is a huge advantage for home defense CQB or as a truck gun. So, not just for backpacking with. If CQB is your focus, then get the BRN-180 with the 10" barrel chambered for 300 Blackout. (That’s what I got mine for … a 300 Blackout AR-style pistol with folding brace for home defense CQB.)
Ruger apparently didnt have good marketing because Ive never heard of their takedown AR till now and would have defintely bought one.
The fold ar was super small and fast to deploy.
I like having the option to add or remove takedown accessories as opposed to having it be the whole gun/proprietary.
The AR is already takedown.
Sub 2000 is the only thing that I know of that you can pull out of the backpack and have it Charged and ready to shoot in under 10 seconds
The huge advantage of a piston driven AR-15 is that you can use ball powder. Ball powder was what was destroying AR-15/M-16s in Vietnam when in order to catch up with the amount of ammo necessary for the war effort because of the stupid idea of putting an AR-15 in virtually everybody’s hand, was the ball powder was raising the cyclic rate from about $750 to about 1,300 rounds per minute and destroying the firearm if it kept running and otherwise just making it turn into a smoking pile of parts. However with a piston you can run ball powder in it quite easily and it also doesn’t constantly put soot into the trigger mechanism.
My first introduction to that PSA dagger, good looking firearm but I still dislike the Triggers on every Striker Fired pistol I’ve ever shot. And as for that trigger safety yes it does look better but it’s still utterly useless it does not provide any safety whatsoever. None of them provide any safety mechanism because anything gets inside the trigger guard and pulls back on the trigger, guess what, it goes bang. I had one commenter respond to me saying that it was to keep the gun from going off if you drop it the trigger has nothing to do with the gun going off when you drop it.
Wanted the folding grip on my backpack gun, but it had too much play on it when it’s extended and locked for use. If the manufacturer fixes that, I might consider it again in the future.
Piston AR15s Where all the rage. Not so much anymore. Unless you are a Ranger jumping into a combat zone the benefits vs costs associated with these type of rifles doesn’t justify the money. Even if we were to find yourselves in a Civil War fighting each other or the government the average person is not going to shoot their weapon enough but it’s going to Foul up in the middle of a fight. The military has been using Direct impingement and 16s and M4s and never bothered to switch to piston rifles with a few exceptions in elite units.
Takedown is awesome. I have cry havoc takedown system, and I’m really impressed with its ability to hold zero. In my case, I do like the portability, but I got an extra barrel for 300 blackout, and the takedown system allows me to use two calibers easily.
Price, primary factor if product sells. Evac was $2K…..too expensive.
Fun fact: the beltway sniper went to several different gunsmiths to have one of these made prior to any being readily available on the market for that short period of time.
The gun store in Tacoma where the rifle inevitably came from illegally and the owner of another Pierce county store were approached about making an AR like this……too many movies
30min vid and not one mention of Dead Foot Arms side folding stock or their collab with FoldAR…
It’s already a takedown it would only have been worthwhile if the price wasn’t five times the cost of a luxury standard AR
Everyone loves using an AR-15 or AR-10 for everything from home defense, to hunting. And a big selling point is the modularity. But European bolt guns are just as modular, very often are take down, and can be converted from caliber to caliber as easily as the ACR or any other quick change barrel AR-15. And it is standard for a great many Euro rifles.
Meanwhile in the US, the land of the second ammendment, we’re stuck with 19th century turn bolts, and semi-autos based on actions from the first half of the 20th century.
The American Rifleman needs to let long guns evolve beyond just rails, stocks, and optics.
The take downs are are all over priced to get into. I went the dolos route but I haven’t been abusive to it and have not noticed any of the ware issues that where noted. Though I went that route to change calibers easily, than for pack and store. One gun to shoot them all.
Mr ruger might have been a so called Fudd. But I never had to send a ruger back for work when he was alive.
I really don’t have the same trust in ruger now. To many problems with newer ruger products.
Little late getting in on the comments, but I’ve always thought the idea of a takedown AR was silly. Yes, you can get a couple more inches out of it over pulling the pins, but I don’t know anyone personally who feels the need to have an AR that compact. You can get close enough by separating the upper and lower, and the compromises required by the takedown system add weight and complexity to what should be a fairly simple design. That’s not to say I dislike the takedown concept, it’s wonderful for something like a 10 22 or a Winchester 94, rifles that need to be taken down to fit in a pack. I have a Marlin Papoose that lives under a seat in my truck. 22LR isn’t the greatest, but it’s nice to know it’s there. I’m almost there with the Ruger PC Carbine, but it’s only available in 9mm or 40. In 10mm it would be a done deal, but my local shop has one in 40 that’s been sitting on the shelf for a minute. It keeps calling to me when I walk by..
Hey, why don’t you check out FoldAR? They are continuing the folding ar like XAR does and even have folding stocks on one of the pistols.
Not an AR but I have a Ruger 10/22 Takedown with a Magpul X22 Backpacker stock and I couldn’t be happier with it. Stupidly accurate (The sights stay with the barrel so that’s not surprising) and I’ve got 10,000-12,000rds through it. I had .22LR rim crack and blow apart and threw the whole extractor assembly from the bolt. I put it back in and kept going.
I hated my Ruger SR-556 (non-takedown). It started to have so many issues right after 1k rounds.
Piston was pointless and over-gassed even on the lowest setting with steel ammo.
Poor extraction, due to the cheapest extractor parts and chamber too tight.
Heavy barrel that you couldn’t rebarrel because of propriatry barrel nut that no wrench existed for.
it was a stupid rifle.
I feel like this is the standard shot show deal…….. An idea comes out or is taken from chatter in the community. The community all says yay we like this sure we will buy it, I’ll take two.
Item hits the market and nobody buys it because it’s a lot easier to spend hypothetical money than real money
DDM5v5s yes!